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 Naming and shaming?

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Camp Freddy

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PostSubject: Naming and shaming?   Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:18 am

When does description become naming and shaming?

If only one person can identify a Dooyoo member in a post, is that enough to warrant mod action? If a description covers a few people, and one of these people is identified, is that N&S?

If I say "a member with the weird profile picture", does this count or do I have to be more specific i.e. "the member with the balaclava"?

Discuss.
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Camp Freddy

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:27 pm

OK, seeing as no-one else wants to kick this off, I'll throw a few thoughts out there.

When running Optors, we tried not to be too Draconian about the whole naming issue. Yes, not naming is a definitely good thing, after all the incidents are what we're here to discuss, not the people. But what about when names aren't used but the person is easy to identify e.g. "the latest reviewer of TRR" pretty much identifies one person. If I post a small, vague description of a member and Cat19 knows who I'm talking about, does that instantly make it N&S and worthy of moderation?

Is it possible to take a N&S policy too far? Is 100% no-N&S really possible? Should we be concerned about any naming that doesn't shame in any way? Should we and/or the mods be any more lenient if a named/shamed member is a member of TRR?
Or am I just making too much of a simple topic?
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helencb

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:55 pm

I think direct identification like the "latest reviewer of TRR" can easily be avoided.

I think it is tough to moderate every single vague item which 99% of the readership have no idea about, and could not identify easily. THen it might be better to let things lie. Good moderation requires sensible judgement, not over or underpolicing in that sense..

It is obviously always desirable to be issue focused and not person focused and I think it is usually quite easy to avoid naming in any case.

It goes without saying, I hope, that comments which are about direct incidents which can easily be identified without the name should be avoided e.g. "someone gave me an SU on my chocolate bar review, what do you think I should do....? " etc etc

I also think there should is no need for a thread that mentions abusers and cheats by name or indirectly where they are clearly identifiable(even if they are cheats!!)- these will be picked up anyway in most cases and guides will report and so members need only simply alert a guide - if it isn't obvious by a guide rating already - and rate accordingly - but no need to bring it away from ciao or dooyoo...it's not really something that warrants separate discussion .



On a broadly related note, although we often share personal information with each other in reviews or elsewhere, and regular readers can build up a profile over time, then unless we really know another individual and know that person will not mind, reasonable care should be taken with disclosing other people's personal information.


Last edited by helencb on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hogsflesh

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:56 pm

The problem is, everyone has a different view of what constitutes common sense - some people on dooyoo probably wouldn't mind having their behaviour discussed on here, while others will scream bloody murder if anyone says (or thinks) anything they don't like.

Not naming is fine as far as possible, but if we're discussing a specific issue, something will have sparked that discussion. It's usually going to be obvious what that something is and, therefore, who did it. Nothing will ever get discussed if we worry too much about accidentally saying something that can be traced back to a named individual.

This is an open forum. Anyone can see what's posted; if someone feels they're being unfairly singled out they can join and put their side across, or at the very least message one of the forum's moderators on dooyoo to object.
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helencb

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:59 pm

I guess I find it hard to imagine how it is impossible to frame the question/issue objectively and discuss the issue at hand?

I dont think there is a need for paranoia - just simple courtesy! I dont think there have been anything close to any N&S issues on here for example in the last week or so - so it is easy done.
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koshkha



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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:32 pm

I would say that moderators should remove anything they think looks a bit dodgy (e.g. they themselves can suss who's being talked about) or anything that another member objects too because that member thinks something has given away the identity of a dooyoo member or a particular review.
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Bluebloodedscouser

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:46 pm

My personal view is direct naming is a huge no no without permission. Indirect naming should be kept as general as possible and nothing should ever be said that we would not be happy for anybody to read. After all the whole point of this site being open view is so people have right of reply.

I would expect moderation of any direct naming.
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cmh4135



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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:57 am

I think we all get far too hung up on this issue.

Direct naming and shaming should be moderated.

Threads and discussions should be couched in neutral terms wherever possible (about 95% of the time IMO)

We shouldn't engender a culture of paranoia where folks try to read identities into discussions causing them to be moderated. So, I wouldn't go so far as Koshka or we'll end up moderating a lot as people will try to read into things, think they see something, and gt upset. As far as I'm concerned we could all read a lot into what is oft posted on these forums in the same way that folks see themselves in carefully written horoscopes. 9/10 it's not intended that way on a forum but I think we risk unduly stiffling good discussion.
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Cat19

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:59 am

We should not have any direct naming whatsoever, that is a no brainer.

I also think we should not have any comments that can be traced back to any individual or to any small group of individuals, this might include things like discussion of; a particular review, the member who left a comment on my review, the member that rated SU on my latest, the author of the crown of the day etc.

If something can be discussed in general terms, then it should be, but some topics are bound to be a little more specific, e.g. temporarily banned members. In which case so long as there is no direct naming or clues to identity I think the discussion is valid.
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Camp Freddy

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:48 am

I've been trying to put my finger on a phrase that someone used on Optors... Jill perhaps, though it's irelevant. I think as long as we're talking about situations or scenarios rather than the people involved in them, then we (both members and mods alike) should be fine.

If someone passes by and takes offence at something, then as Hoggy says, they can either join up and report it or PM a mod (or EVEN other TRR members) on Dooyoo to pass along their concerns.
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helencb

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:47 am

well I would certainly always agree that it should be situations and scenarios not the individuals...
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mattygroves

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:44 pm

No naming policies CAN (and did) get silly - FOIB had one of those, to the point that I was told off (and told I should know better as a mod - I resigned as a mod over the issue) for naming George. Now George was not a real person, and I didn't say anything about my fictional George, but as it was a name....

It got to the point where we couldn't even use the names of the people on the forum...that we were talking to!

I think we need to be adults here. If someone is easily identifiable, that's one thing...but to avoid all reference to everybody ever is mostly possible, but sometimes absurd (imagine trying to discuss George W Bush in such a way that you couldn't identify who he was...)

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helencb

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:46 pm

hehe

i remember that - I forgot about George. I was thinking from a purely common sense point of view.

A Common Sense point of view says wherever possible people can discuss issues without naming others.

Now, if we are going to talk about the ex president of the United States, then that does change things a little.


Generally though, N&S can be avoided with a modicum of common sense and a less than abnormal amount of paranoia (i.e. I didnt really think it was my premier inn review on the thread three days ago....!)


I think any objections are always about direct naming or obvious indirect naming (i.e. the idiot who gave me a SU on my latest premier inn review....etc.................)


As for the idiot who gave me an SU on my latest chocolate bar review because I listed the ingredients, well as long as I dont identify him/her specifically or identify the review (but instead ask a generic question) then no harm done..........!

I dont think most of us are miles apart on this one.
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marymoose99

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PostSubject: Re: Naming and shaming?   Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:15 pm

On the other hand though if someone wants to slag me off I'd much rather they just did it to my face!
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